Wow!!!  First time I've ever been accused of extremist and that includes my course work at an area college that is arguably as iberal in it's theology and basic beliefs as Harvard or Yale.

I don't wish for a church/state and I have never proposed that or hinted at it in any of my posts, because I don't support it at all.  The problem with most liberals is they arrogantly believe that they are the only source of right and wrong and all others are dumb, stupid, ignorant, and uneducated.  I think what happens it that sometimes the answer is just so simple that they think it can't be.

With 130 "present" votes in the State Senate in Illinois you're going to have to explain to me how a guy who can't seem to make up his mind about anything is qualified to be President.  You're going to have to explain to me how a 10% profit constitutes a "windfall profit".  People blame Bush for the economic decline, explain to me, why, when gas was $4 per gallon did Nancy Pelosi propose $.50 per gallon INCREASE in the federal gas tax.  How does Bush get blamed for NAFTA when it was Bill Clinton signed it into law.

My research is no more biased than anyone who quotes moveon or any other liberal web site, in fact the other day I even posted a link to the NY Times about Obama's voting record in Illinois.  Do I try to convince people of my opinions. yup sometimes, but is that any different than any other person who posts on this forum?  If pointing out to Cheape that raising business taxes will automatically increase the price of that product to the consumer, because he doesn't understand that well, then. guilty as charged.

One more question for you, if raising the minimum wage doesn't have an effect on the real wages of people, then why do it?

As for what would I consider middle class, the median household income in Elkhart County in 2005 was $45,811.  Seems something like that would be middle class.

Last night you posted that you paid a lot for your advanced education. In the same post you said you were an entrepreneur who loved to do start ups. When you replied to Miller that your income was about that I'm not sure if you were referring to Obama saying the middle class was making $ 150k a year or the average family in Elkhart county making $ 48k a year. It doesn't matter which one you're referring to and I don't want to know how much you make.

 But I will say this. If you make $ 48k a year your advanced education and your entrepreneur start up companies haven't done you much good. If your income is about $ 150k a year you've done ok. What I don't understand is if that's what your income is ($150k) why you don't think you can afford $ 10,000 a year for health insurance. If you have employees in your start ups do you provide them with health insurance You also said in your post last night that your guru is a woman much younger than you. You think she's around 40 but you're not sure because you've never asked her about her age. Based on that statement I'll take a wild guess and say you're around 50 years old.

 Having a family of five at that age with no health insurance is very risky business. I don't have to tell you that you already know it. If you're only making $ 48k a year, with your education, you should be able to find a job paying more than that with a company that also offers health insurance to their employees. If you make $ 150k a year I hope you'll find a way to work those insurance premiums back into your budget.

I'm not trying to get into your personal business Tom. I'm just a seasoned citizens making a few observations and offering an opinion. Hope you're not offended.

Since your handing out free advice tonight, what do you think about this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXSN5mE5dVM

Barry

What would your advice be to Sarah and John?

It's always been hard to define the middle class because it isn't based on just income level. It used to include tye of job/position held and things like that. But that is harder to do now that many blue collar jobs are gone and many professional jobs don't pay squat.

Regardless, I think that 150k a year is fair. What McCain failed to include in his list of what the income should include is health care and college tuition, retirement. My parents make under 150k but not too far under, and they have a nice home, but health care costs coupled with a child with severe chronic health problems, and college tuition, trying to sock away for a comfortable retirement and if I remember right it is that segment of society that is shucking out the highest part of their incomes to taxes. (Remember how Buffett contrasted his rate with his secretary's?)My parents have skilled jobs, but they are occupations traditionally considered blue collar. Remember that a small business owner guy can be one of those making 150k a year, too (many a lot less, but I'm just sayin'..). I don't consider any of these people rich by any stretch, because like I said, when real life kicks in, you notice real quick how far that money doesn't go, and they don't catch a break.

I think his 150k estimated cut off for tax beaks is a good one, although it could stand to be a little higher even.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"The society which over-rewards people who simply happen to be standing in the right place at the right time will waste its effort in a constant jostling match to be lucky, rather than good."

--stirling newberry

If you are truly making $150,000 and can't afford to raise a family of five, then may I suggest that you have made some lifestyle choices that have put you in this bind.  May I suggest listening to Dave Ramsey on the radio, or you can stream it online at DaveRamsey.com to help you out.  $150,000 is NOT middle class.

Gramm,

Don't be so suprised.  Of the 44 million who do not health insurance in this country (the dems like this number) 10 million are non citizens.  Of the remaining 34 million almost 10 million make $75,000 per year or more.

I forgot the link in my first post but here it is.

http://engram-backtalk.blogspot.com/2007/08/census-bureau-health-insurance.html